1 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:05,920 [Music] 2 00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:09,090 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 3 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:13,920 from Australia for science and reason 4 00:00:23,170 --> 00:00:16,850 [Applause] 5 00:00:26,300 --> 00:00:23,180 [Music] 6 00:00:28,850 --> 00:00:26,310 yes it's the skipping zone podcast the 7 00:00:32,210 --> 00:00:28,860 last skeptic zone podcast that are 8 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:32,220 starting with a four episode four nine 9 00:00:39,770 --> 00:00:37,050 nine the last in the 400 series for the 10 00:00:42,079 --> 00:00:39,780 13th of May 2018 Richard Saunders here 11 00:00:45,860 --> 00:00:42,089 with you from a wintery believe it or 12 00:00:47,540 --> 00:00:45,870 not a windy cold rainy wintery Sydney 13 00:00:50,299 --> 00:00:47,550 Australia no though it's not quite 14 00:00:52,250 --> 00:00:50,309 winter yet coming up at the top of the 15 00:00:55,279 --> 00:00:52,260 show what a treat an interview with my 16 00:00:57,860 --> 00:00:55,289 old friend dr. Pamela gay the fabulous 17 00:00:59,630 --> 00:00:57,870 astronomer the astronomer extraordinaire 18 00:01:02,869 --> 00:00:59,640 I call her once 19 00:01:04,639 --> 00:01:02,879 Pamela been up - what news is there from 20 00:01:07,190 --> 00:01:04,649 space there's always a news from space 21 00:01:10,820 --> 00:01:07,200 and always a delight to catch up with 22 00:01:12,859 --> 00:01:10,830 Pamela gay and I'm also delighted to say 23 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:12,869 she'll be in Sydney Australia later in 24 00:01:16,609 --> 00:01:14,570 the year more news about that soon 25 00:01:20,199 --> 00:01:16,619 Pamela tells us what's happening out 26 00:01:24,699 --> 00:01:20,209 there in the heavens and news of some 27 00:01:26,960 --> 00:01:24,709 incredible video from the planet Jupiter 28 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:26,970 following that it's the raw skeptic 29 00:01:35,229 --> 00:01:29,690 Heidi Robertson she's going to be 30 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:35,239 examining the interesting claims of a 31 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:39,810 self-proclaimed natural healer wait till 32 00:01:45,650 --> 00:01:42,810 you hear the claims this guy makes do 33 00:01:47,900 --> 00:01:45,660 they stack up I won't give you any 34 00:01:49,669 --> 00:01:47,910 spoilers you'll have to listen to the 35 00:01:53,779 --> 00:01:49,679 raw skeptic report coming up a bit later 36 00:01:55,430 --> 00:01:53,789 on in the show then we think we thank a 37 00:01:57,559 --> 00:01:55,440 lot of people who have come to the aid 38 00:01:59,389 --> 00:01:57,569 of science a couple of weeks ago I put 39 00:02:01,699 --> 00:01:59,399 out a shout out on the sceptic zone for 40 00:02:03,410 --> 00:02:01,709 people to help capture web pages well 41 00:02:06,949 --> 00:02:03,420 that whole project has been very 42 00:02:09,949 --> 00:02:06,959 successful and we'll be letting you know 43 00:02:11,839 --> 00:02:09,959 what's happening a bit later on then to 44 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:11,849 round off the show I'm going to revisit 45 00:02:17,390 --> 00:02:14,250 a story I mentioned briefly all about a 46 00:02:20,630 --> 00:02:17,400 month or two back the case of Jared 47 00:02:23,210 --> 00:02:20,640 cassette the so-called psychic detective 48 00:02:25,490 --> 00:02:23,220 who came to Australia in order to find 49 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:25,500 missing children this is way back in the 50 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:28,970 1960s now I gave you a brief 51 00:02:34,690 --> 00:02:32,810 overview of this case today I thought I 52 00:02:36,490 --> 00:02:34,700 would read you my full report as 53 00:02:38,260 --> 00:02:36,500 published in the pages of the skeptic 54 00:02:40,150 --> 00:02:38,270 magazine the journal from Australian 55 00:02:42,100 --> 00:02:40,160 skeptics not to be confused with any 56 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:42,110 other magazine around the world with the 57 00:02:48,190 --> 00:02:45,170 title skeptic in it this is the skeptic 58 00:02:50,260 --> 00:02:48,200 magazine from Australia and you can 59 00:02:52,270 --> 00:02:50,270 subscribe it skeptics calm today you 60 00:02:55,030 --> 00:02:52,280 however I thought you might enjoy 61 00:02:56,050 --> 00:02:55,040 hopefully my full report about this 62 00:02:58,870 --> 00:02:56,060 so-called 63 00:03:01,900 --> 00:02:58,880 psychic detective way back in the 1960s 64 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:01,910 an interesting case and a lesson for us 65 00:03:05,500 --> 00:03:02,330 all 66 00:03:07,420 --> 00:03:05,510 now some little notes from me don't 67 00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:07,430 forget there are some skeptical 68 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:10,060 conventions coming up soon in fact 69 00:03:16,449 --> 00:03:13,370 skeptic owl convention conference at 70 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:16,459 Berkeley is weeks away 71 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:20,690 in early June I'll put a link to this on 72 00:03:25,420 --> 00:03:23,090 the show notes that said 10th of June in 73 00:03:28,330 --> 00:03:25,430 Berkeley I will be speaking there while 74 00:03:30,490 --> 00:03:28,340 taking part or hanging around or making 75 00:03:32,230 --> 00:03:30,500 a nuisance of myself or doing something 76 00:03:34,780 --> 00:03:32,240 I'll be there if you're coming along 77 00:03:36,699 --> 00:03:34,790 it'd be great to see you and I have a 78 00:03:39,780 --> 00:03:36,709 note from the organizers saying that 79 00:03:43,660 --> 00:03:39,790 early registration early registration 80 00:03:46,090 --> 00:03:43,670 will be ending soon so if you want to 81 00:03:49,380 --> 00:03:46,100 get your tickets 82 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:49,390 now's the time to do it so quickly click 83 00:03:56,530 --> 00:03:53,090 sceptical calm calm and snap up those 84 00:03:58,449 --> 00:03:56,540 early registration tickets also I think 85 00:04:00,370 --> 00:03:58,459 there is still time for you if you're in 86 00:04:03,699 --> 00:04:00,380 Sydney to sign up for the Australian 87 00:04:08,229 --> 00:04:03,709 sceptics vaccination day this is May the 88 00:04:11,050 --> 00:04:08,239 19th if you want to come along and have 89 00:04:16,270 --> 00:04:11,060 your vaccinations done by the fabulously 90 00:04:18,190 --> 00:04:16,280 famous doctor Brad Makai known on TV and 91 00:04:21,039 --> 00:04:18,200 radio he's one of the doctors in the 92 00:04:25,659 --> 00:04:21,049 Australian version of embarrassing 93 00:04:27,940 --> 00:04:25,669 bodies that TV show where medical 94 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:27,950 science comes to the aid of people who 95 00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:30,890 have genuine medical problems and need 96 00:04:36,969 --> 00:04:34,310 urgent help anyway the details about 97 00:04:39,159 --> 00:04:36,979 that day can be found at skeptics calm 98 00:04:41,170 --> 00:04:39,169 today you if you're a Sydneysider and 99 00:04:42,559 --> 00:04:41,180 you'd like to get your flu shot next 100 00:04:45,019 --> 00:04:42,569 weekend in fact 101 00:04:47,570 --> 00:04:45,029 that out well that's enough for me at 102 00:04:48,980 --> 00:04:47,580 the moment I've shut the studio door 103 00:04:50,450 --> 00:04:48,990 however there are a couple of cats 104 00:04:51,350 --> 00:04:50,460 outside wondering what the hell I'm 105 00:05:01,850 --> 00:04:51,360 doing in here 106 00:05:04,179 --> 00:05:01,860 alright hang on you okay it's Henrietta 107 00:05:09,139 --> 00:05:04,189 she's sticking her nose in the door yes 108 00:05:09,919 --> 00:05:09,149 well you wanted to come in she's changed 109 00:05:12,260 --> 00:05:09,929 her mind 110 00:05:16,579 --> 00:05:12,270 well now the doors open I'm going to run 111 00:05:23,230 --> 00:05:16,589 downstairs and make myself a zucchini or 112 00:05:27,589 --> 00:05:23,240 courgette and corn fritter with some 113 00:05:29,899 --> 00:05:27,599 cream on top and pepper and a little bit 114 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:29,909 of hot sauce while I do that I hope you 115 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:31,370 enjoy the skeptic sir 116 00:05:53,790 --> 00:05:51,010 joining me now all the way from it would 117 00:05:56,410 --> 00:05:53,800 fill Illinois is the astronomer 118 00:06:00,610 --> 00:05:56,420 extraordinaire dr. Pamela gay hello 119 00:06:02,590 --> 00:06:00,620 Pamela hello Richard Pamela wonderful to 120 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:02,600 see you and yes yes we are looking at 121 00:06:07,630 --> 00:06:04,130 each other through an application I've 122 00:06:10,420 --> 00:06:07,640 not used before called zoom and we just 123 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:10,430 did a wonderful hour together on the 124 00:06:17,260 --> 00:06:13,370 twitch network now what can you tell my 125 00:06:20,020 --> 00:06:17,270 listeners about that so twitch is a 126 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:20,030 platform that originally came out for 127 00:06:25,450 --> 00:06:22,490 people to stream video games while they 128 00:06:27,340 --> 00:06:25,460 played and this is a great way to do run 129 00:06:31,540 --> 00:06:27,350 throughs walk throughs explain how to 130 00:06:34,270 --> 00:06:31,550 solve puzzles and just well share how 131 00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:34,280 good you are at destroying things on the 132 00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:40,310 Internet's folks is that it's sort of 133 00:06:44,170 --> 00:06:42,110 like a I mean with my limited knowledge 134 00:06:46,030 --> 00:06:44,180 it's like a Skype I can see a full image 135 00:06:48,220 --> 00:06:46,040 of Pamela I can see myself in the corner 136 00:06:52,380 --> 00:06:48,230 but more importantly you can then use 137 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:52,390 this to mount your own little video show 138 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:54,890 so what you're talking about right now 139 00:06:59,230 --> 00:06:56,530 is just zoom and this is just 140 00:07:01,510 --> 00:06:59,240 videoconferencing software so zoom is 141 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:01,520 fabulous video conferencing software and 142 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:03,530 what's cool about it is it has a gallery 143 00:07:07,540 --> 00:07:05,450 view that you can click on in the upper 144 00:07:09,159 --> 00:07:07,550 right and if there were nine of us it 145 00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:09,169 would arrange us like the Brady Bunch 146 00:07:14,710 --> 00:07:11,840 and there's something deeply pleasing 147 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:14,720 about organizing your entire telecon to 148 00:07:19,990 --> 00:07:15,970 look like the Brady Bunch 149 00:07:23,530 --> 00:07:20,000 I'll take you with this is how I get 150 00:07:25,210 --> 00:07:23,540 through a telecon wonderful listeners 151 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:25,220 even know what the Brady Bunch is I hope 152 00:07:31,930 --> 00:07:27,290 they do it's it's a classic part of 153 00:07:33,670 --> 00:07:31,940 culture let's get away from these 154 00:07:38,710 --> 00:07:33,680 frivolous matters Brady Bunch's and 155 00:07:40,659 --> 00:07:38,720 frivolous what is new in cause in the 156 00:07:44,860 --> 00:07:40,669 world of Paul McGann cosmo quest and all 157 00:07:46,270 --> 00:07:44,870 your activities well so so we launched 158 00:07:49,060 --> 00:07:46,280 amateur detective which I told your 159 00:07:52,510 --> 00:07:49,070 audience about back in the end of 160 00:07:54,820 --> 00:07:52,520 September we did a complete refresh 161 00:07:56,740 --> 00:07:54,830 all of our mappers projects recently so 162 00:07:59,589 --> 00:07:56,750 we're doing new science answering the 163 00:08:04,180 --> 00:07:59,599 questions but the thing that has me 164 00:08:05,980 --> 00:08:04,190 super excited is we are now part of the 165 00:08:09,930 --> 00:08:05,990 growing community of people who are 166 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:09,940 using twitch.tv to share science to 167 00:08:19,779 --> 00:08:13,490 share how we do things how we program 168 00:08:23,020 --> 00:08:19,789 how we do artwork how we make and 169 00:08:25,860 --> 00:08:23,030 understand so twitch is now going from 170 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:25,870 being the place you go to watch people 171 00:08:31,779 --> 00:08:29,090 figure out quests and video games to be 172 00:08:34,209 --> 00:08:31,789 where you figure out how to repair your 173 00:08:36,190 --> 00:08:34,219 car cook your dinner or build laser 174 00:08:37,930 --> 00:08:36,200 tweezers because hey who doesn't want to 175 00:08:44,949 --> 00:08:37,940 build a set of laser tweezers in their 176 00:08:46,780 --> 00:08:44,959 spare time we're we're actually 177 00:08:48,940 --> 00:08:46,790 launching a series of new problem 178 00:08:52,449 --> 00:08:48,950 projects you just got to be one of them 179 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:52,459 we're doing a new learning space series 180 00:08:56,650 --> 00:08:54,890 that airs every Thursday alternating 181 00:09:00,220 --> 00:08:56,660 between times that are good for Europe 182 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:00,230 and the asia-pacific region we archive 183 00:09:05,550 --> 00:09:03,890 everything on YouTube and it's just a 184 00:09:08,620 --> 00:09:05,560 show where we're interviewing people 185 00:09:10,930 --> 00:09:08,630 hearing their stories of how someone 186 00:09:13,630 --> 00:09:10,940 who's not a PhD researcher has found 187 00:09:17,769 --> 00:09:13,640 their own way to be part of the science 188 00:09:20,889 --> 00:09:17,779 skepticism astronomy communities and we 189 00:09:24,490 --> 00:09:20,899 also have launched a daily fast paced 190 00:09:26,350 --> 00:09:24,500 quick update on all that's new in space 191 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:26,360 and astronomy and it's just called the 192 00:09:30,430 --> 00:09:28,490 daily space it's a play on the daily 193 00:09:33,310 --> 00:09:30,440 planet for all of you comic book lovers 194 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:33,320 out there and I'm hosting that Monday 195 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:37,010 through Friday and it's just fun and 196 00:09:42,699 --> 00:09:40,730 it's like 15 minutes and it makes me 197 00:09:44,290 --> 00:09:42,709 feel smarter just preparing it so 198 00:09:45,370 --> 00:09:44,300 hopefully you'll feel smarter if you 199 00:09:48,819 --> 00:09:45,380 come listen to it 200 00:09:52,269 --> 00:09:48,829 well this is so much on at the moment 201 00:09:54,819 --> 00:09:52,279 the this twitch the folks I'm new to the 202 00:09:57,190 --> 00:09:54,829 body here I really am up late to party 203 00:09:58,540 --> 00:09:57,200 I've not kept up with us many things you 204 00:10:02,590 --> 00:09:58,550 can't keep up with them all of course 205 00:10:06,380 --> 00:10:02,600 yeah so let me ask you this what is new 206 00:10:10,140 --> 00:10:08,040 uh-oh 207 00:10:13,890 --> 00:10:10,150 so what is some of the coolest stuff 208 00:10:16,380 --> 00:10:13,900 I've heard this week so we have found a 209 00:10:18,390 --> 00:10:16,390 regular everyday asteroid that's 210 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:18,400 basically a big rock shaped like a 211 00:10:23,580 --> 00:10:21,010 potato as most asteroids are it's not 212 00:10:25,020 --> 00:10:23,590 iron it's not metal it's just a rock 213 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:25,030 it's what we call a carbonaceous 214 00:10:30,150 --> 00:10:28,570 chondrite we think because we can't see 215 00:10:33,180 --> 00:10:30,160 it as clearly as we can see most 216 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:33,190 asteroids because if instead of being in 217 00:10:39,150 --> 00:10:36,730 the asteroid belt it is out in the edge 218 00:10:41,850 --> 00:10:39,160 of the solar system and what we call the 219 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:41,860 Kuiper belt this is the same belt of 220 00:10:48,510 --> 00:10:46,210 objects that well Pluto is and Sedna's 221 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:48,520 and all of these little dwarf worlds are 222 00:10:55,620 --> 00:10:52,690 in and this shows us that all of our 223 00:10:57,870 --> 00:10:55,630 theories that the early solar system was 224 00:10:59,430 --> 00:10:57,880 the violent and chaotic place that flung 225 00:11:01,380 --> 00:10:59,440 rocks in all directions 226 00:11:03,450 --> 00:11:01,390 well now we're finding the rocks that 227 00:11:05,340 --> 00:11:03,460 got flown outwards instead of coming 228 00:11:07,590 --> 00:11:05,350 inwards to about our worlds like the 229 00:11:11,370 --> 00:11:07,600 earth and then well how big is this 230 00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:11,380 particular objection it's not huge it 231 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:13,360 wouldn't be an earth killer it's not the 232 00:11:18,570 --> 00:11:15,850 size of Pluto or anything it's just like 233 00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:18,580 a run-of-the-mill boring asteroid and 234 00:11:20,940 --> 00:11:20,320 they can see that all the way in the 235 00:11:24,390 --> 00:11:20,950 Kuiper belt 236 00:11:27,660 --> 00:11:24,400 Oh detected see you detected but seeing 237 00:11:30,540 --> 00:11:27,670 as I we can't see details we can detect 238 00:11:32,850 --> 00:11:30,550 its slight reflectance of light this is 239 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:32,860 actually part of what got them so 240 00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:35,050 interested they were originally doing I 241 00:11:39,540 --> 00:11:36,910 believe they were detecting things using 242 00:11:41,460 --> 00:11:39,550 the Hubble Space Telescope and they saw 243 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:41,470 this thing that wasn't reflecting light 244 00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:44,530 the way they expected so they tuned in 245 00:11:49,020 --> 00:11:46,870 and did spectroscopy of it using The 246 00:11:52,190 --> 00:11:49,030 Very Large Telescope down in Chile and 247 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:52,200 sure enough it was a rock not ice good 248 00:12:02,090 --> 00:11:55,330 good now I saw in a video that Phil 249 00:12:06,060 --> 00:12:02,100 Plait was posting and it looked insanely 250 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:06,070 interesting of snow on a comet it must 251 00:12:15,300 --> 00:12:13,690 be for me yes well snow may be an 252 00:12:17,610 --> 00:12:15,310 overstatement because when we think of 253 00:12:18,569 --> 00:12:17,620 snow we think of like clouds and things 254 00:12:20,759 --> 00:12:18,579 falling out of that 255 00:12:24,569 --> 00:12:20,769 what you were seeing with some rescued 256 00:12:28,350 --> 00:12:24,579 video that I was from the feel a lander 257 00:12:31,199 --> 00:12:28,360 that accompany the Rosetta mission on a 258 00:12:35,609 --> 00:12:31,209 long dark cold mission around the solar 259 00:12:40,739 --> 00:12:35,619 system until it finally intercepted 260 00:12:43,799 --> 00:12:40,749 comet sherry Gary last year and feely 261 00:12:46,439 --> 00:12:43,809 didn't land the way we wanted it do it 262 00:12:48,660 --> 00:12:46,449 was supposed yeah it was supposed to 263 00:12:51,479 --> 00:12:48,670 deploy harpoons to fasten itself to the 264 00:12:53,609 --> 00:12:51,489 ground because it was falling a fair 265 00:12:57,419 --> 00:12:53,619 distance it was falling off of a 266 00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:57,429 spacecraft hovering in a separate orbit 267 00:13:03,929 --> 00:13:00,480 that paralleled that of the comet and 268 00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:03,939 the gravity of the comet made the 269 00:13:09,660 --> 00:13:06,160 spacecraft feel the same way piece of 270 00:13:12,509 --> 00:13:09,670 paper feels in earth gravity so when it 271 00:13:14,939 --> 00:13:12,519 hit and it's harpoons didn't grab on it 272 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:14,949 kind of bounced yeah but we got some 273 00:13:21,499 --> 00:13:16,689 video back that we didn't know about 274 00:13:25,220 --> 00:13:21,509 until recently and and these images 275 00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:25,230 strung together to form video show this 276 00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:28,649 dynamic environment where there is 277 00:13:35,989 --> 00:13:33,519 particulate ice stuff snow flying all 278 00:13:38,999 --> 00:13:35,999 over the place and what's happening is 279 00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:39,009 the astronaut the asteroid the comet 280 00:13:46,019 --> 00:13:43,480 itself is active it has pockets where 281 00:13:48,479 --> 00:13:46,029 volatile zs-- this is frozen ice frozen 282 00:13:51,239 --> 00:13:48,489 nitrogen so frozen water eyes fridge the 283 00:13:54,780 --> 00:13:51,249 nitrogen frozen carbon dioxide all the 284 00:13:57,059 --> 00:13:54,790 frozen stuffs are starting to unfreeze 285 00:13:59,069 --> 00:13:57,069 in different pockets because the combat 286 00:14:04,499 --> 00:13:59,079 is getting closer and closer to the Sun 287 00:14:06,749 --> 00:14:04,509 and this is yes so comets they go 288 00:14:09,629 --> 00:14:06,759 completely dormant as they go into the 289 00:14:12,929 --> 00:14:09,639 outer coldest parts of our solar system 290 00:14:15,769 --> 00:14:12,939 as they migrate in they begin to heat up 291 00:14:18,749 --> 00:14:15,779 they build this coma around them this 292 00:14:22,530 --> 00:14:18,759 sphere of volatile that they've let off 293 00:14:25,289 --> 00:14:22,540 over time the sun's radiation begins to 294 00:14:27,749 --> 00:14:25,299 push these material outwards creating a 295 00:14:29,939 --> 00:14:27,759 tail that is not following the motion of 296 00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:29,949 the comet it's actually pushed out by 297 00:14:35,970 --> 00:14:31,920 the solar wind 298 00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:35,980 sunlight and other particles and so as 299 00:14:42,260 --> 00:14:38,310 the comet moves in it gets heated up 300 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:42,270 volatiles sublimate are given off 301 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:44,890 particulate matter gets flung away in 302 00:14:51,570 --> 00:14:48,250 the process and this video showed all of 303 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:51,580 these things going on and it just looked 304 00:14:58,380 --> 00:14:54,970 like in a storm of the biggest angriest 305 00:15:00,690 --> 00:14:58,390 either mash or snow you have ever seen 306 00:15:04,140 --> 00:15:00,700 depending if you're someone from Hawaii 307 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:04,150 or someone from the northern somewhere 308 00:15:07,650 --> 00:15:06,010 in the northern hemisphere where deep 309 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:07,660 south in the southern hemisphere it was 310 00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:11,050 drinking place with snow dramatic yes it 311 00:15:15,330 --> 00:15:12,880 was dramatic oh I will use that word 312 00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:15,340 deeply fascinating dramatic surprising 313 00:15:21,450 --> 00:15:19,720 and again it's like you and I in the 314 00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:21,460 last hour we're talking about videos 315 00:15:25,770 --> 00:15:23,440 from Mars you know the last and Lander 316 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:25,780 making it or a series of pictures strung 317 00:15:30,510 --> 00:15:28,690 together do a video and to me and I 318 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:30,520 wonder if it is to to you folks out 319 00:15:36,180 --> 00:15:33,130 there to see pictures from other worlds 320 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:36,190 as commonplace it really is these days 321 00:15:40,140 --> 00:15:37,810 it's it's not hard there are thousands 322 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:40,150 of them but to see a video from another 323 00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:43,690 world that's that's mind stepping there 324 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:48,160 there was an amazing simulation isn't 325 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:50,650 quite the right word that that came out 326 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:52,450 today that was put together actually by 327 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:54,490 a citizen science working with the Juno 328 00:16:02,250 --> 00:15:57,250 cam on the Juno mission orbiting Jupiter 329 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:02,260 and Juno cam isn't a professional 330 00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:05,110 science instrument it's added onto the 331 00:16:11,610 --> 00:16:08,380 Juno mission to allow everyday people to 332 00:16:15,390 --> 00:16:11,620 help pick what they want to look at and 333 00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:15,400 get the images they want to ask the 334 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:18,070 questions they want people vote on what 335 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:19,810 images are going to get taken this is a 336 00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:24,090 public instrument and there there was 337 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:28,000 one of the amateurs and I'm looking up 338 00:16:35,220 --> 00:16:33,130 his name now one of the amateurs he took 339 00:16:38,270 --> 00:16:35,230 two different images that were taken I 340 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:38,280 think it was eight minutes apart and 341 00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:41,730 he's a mathematician by training and 342 00:16:48,629 --> 00:16:44,950 he's a software developer by professor 343 00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:48,639 this is Gerald or Scott he's working 344 00:16:53,490 --> 00:16:50,620 with some of the professional scientists 345 00:16:56,730 --> 00:16:53,500 and he took these two images that were 346 00:16:59,940 --> 00:16:56,740 eight minutes apart and they showed the 347 00:17:02,759 --> 00:16:59,950 vortices the storms these beautiful 348 00:17:04,590 --> 00:17:02,769 swirling patterns on Jupiter and over 349 00:17:08,220 --> 00:17:04,600 eight minutes that's enough to see 350 00:17:10,110 --> 00:17:08,230 rotation begin to happen and using his 351 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:10,120 training as a mathematician using his 352 00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:12,910 training as a software developer he 353 00:17:18,590 --> 00:17:16,240 filled in the gaps between these two 354 00:17:23,309 --> 00:17:18,600 eight minutes separated images and 355 00:17:26,579 --> 00:17:23,319 created a video of interpolation of how 356 00:17:31,289 --> 00:17:26,589 everything is moving and it's it's 357 00:17:35,010 --> 00:17:31,299 absolutely captivating to see Jupiter 358 00:17:38,850 --> 00:17:35,020 actually come to life at the smallest 359 00:17:43,980 --> 00:17:38,860 scales while we're watching wow so if 360 00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:43,990 people look for Juno Juno cam they can 361 00:17:53,159 --> 00:17:47,880 they can find the video I i'd look for 362 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:53,169 juno cam Gerald spelled with a G hey 363 00:17:58,380 --> 00:17:55,330 I'll just tweet it look at star Strider 364 00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:58,390 on Twitter and I will find the video and 365 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:01,360 just tweet it do that folks and also 366 00:18:05,070 --> 00:18:03,610 again I shall certainly link to that 367 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:05,080 video on the show notes I can't wait to 368 00:18:15,930 --> 00:18:09,610 see it myself and how the variable stars 369 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:15,940 going power they still they are so as 370 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:18,490 you know I got my start in variable 371 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:21,010 stars and today I actually was reading 372 00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:22,570 through journal articles and I saw 373 00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:24,400 something that took me home to my very 374 00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:27,910 first paying job which was studying 375 00:18:34,830 --> 00:18:31,510 t-tauri stars there is a T Tauri which 376 00:18:36,409 --> 00:18:34,840 is a very young variable star someday 377 00:18:38,730 --> 00:18:36,419 it's going to evolve into something 378 00:18:41,370 --> 00:18:38,740 similar to the Sun maybe a little bit 379 00:18:45,419 --> 00:18:41,380 bigger maybe a little bit smaller but 380 00:18:48,570 --> 00:18:45,429 right now all it is is this giant disk 381 00:18:50,669 --> 00:18:48,580 of material and an angry young star that 382 00:18:53,730 --> 00:18:50,679 is doing the variable star thing in the 383 00:18:56,450 --> 00:18:53,740 core and an observation Dacians made 384 00:18:58,770 --> 00:18:56,460 with the Alma telescope down in Chile 385 00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:58,780 they were able to see this 386 00:19:03,030 --> 00:19:01,360 disk that was bigger than most disks 387 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:03,040 that they'd otherwise been observing in 388 00:19:07,530 --> 00:19:05,290 this region of the sky which is towards 389 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:07,540 the constellation lupus and this 390 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:10,510 particular disk is awesome because it 391 00:19:17,010 --> 00:19:13,450 has this step structure in brightness 392 00:19:21,090 --> 00:19:17,020 where there's this big bright bigger 393 00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:21,100 than our entire solar system core of 394 00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:24,880 glowing material and then there's a dip 395 00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:26,670 and brightness and then there's another 396 00:19:34,140 --> 00:19:29,980 layer of material that isn't quite as 397 00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:34,150 bright and this is a region of space 398 00:19:40,050 --> 00:19:36,460 that hasn't yet started to form planets 399 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:40,060 but may yet form planets it's only a few 400 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:42,250 million years old right now so we're 401 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:44,770 seeing a baby baby solar system in its 402 00:19:49,050 --> 00:19:47,650 earliest days that's there wow that's 403 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:49,060 absolutely fascinating 404 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:51,490 I mean we can't wrap our heads around 405 00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:56,290 the scale although we I mean I can I can 406 00:20:00,000 --> 00:19:58,210 have a vague idea of the scale although 407 00:20:00,570 --> 00:20:00,010 I can't possibly comprehend it if that 408 00:20:02,970 --> 00:20:00,580 makes sense 409 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:02,980 so the distance from the earth to the 410 00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:05,770 Sun is one astronomical unit this is 411 00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:09,910 eight light-minutes run we're looking at 412 00:20:18,090 --> 00:20:15,120 a system where the inner part is a 413 00:20:20,730 --> 00:20:18,100 hundred astronomical it's more than a 414 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:20,740 hundred astronomical units so here we're 415 00:20:30,210 --> 00:20:25,330 looking at light hours many light hours 416 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:30,220 across and the idea of a solar system 417 00:20:35,610 --> 00:20:33,130 that we can see where from edge to edge 418 00:20:39,630 --> 00:20:35,620 we're starting to look at light taking 419 00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:39,640 an entire day to travel that that is 420 00:20:46,650 --> 00:20:42,100 mind-blowing and that's the way to look 421 00:20:48,420 --> 00:20:46,660 at these things yeah yeah Wow goodness 422 00:20:49,890 --> 00:20:48,430 me Pamela I think I could talk to you 423 00:20:55,290 --> 00:20:49,900 for six weeks and then we could get 424 00:20:57,780 --> 00:20:55,300 started on a conversation it's just the 425 00:20:59,790 --> 00:20:57,790 exciting news for Sydney listeners 426 00:21:01,560 --> 00:20:59,800 Australian listeners is they can meet 427 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:01,570 you in person later on this year at the 428 00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:02,890 Australian skeptics National Convention 429 00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:05,230 folks that's October the 13th to the 430 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:08,710 14th and you know what I think would you 431 00:21:11,550 --> 00:21:09,850 should just clear out all the other 432 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:11,560 guests and have a Pamela gay weekend 433 00:21:14,380 --> 00:21:12,290 quite frankly 434 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:14,390 I think that would be above this thing 435 00:21:19,660 --> 00:21:16,490 to happen I hope you like I would do it 436 00:21:22,150 --> 00:21:19,670 I am so looking forward to being there 437 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:22,160 it's going to be spring it's going to be 438 00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:24,770 beautiful and there's beautiful people 439 00:21:31,870 --> 00:21:29,600 and I I have always loved going to 440 00:21:34,420 --> 00:21:31,880 skeptics events down under because of 441 00:21:37,150 --> 00:21:34,430 the activism you guys bring to 442 00:21:39,220 --> 00:21:37,160 everything that you want to see in the 443 00:21:41,290 --> 00:21:39,230 world you are making the world you want 444 00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:41,300 to live in well thank you very much even 445 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:46,430 if it's flat we try our best be so much 446 00:21:53,890 --> 00:21:48,650 easier to get there if it were flat oh I 447 00:21:58,270 --> 00:21:53,900 know even your dog agrees I think 448 00:22:01,030 --> 00:21:58,280 without it's true it's true family gay 449 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:01,040 again we cannot wait to see you folks if 450 00:22:05,310 --> 00:22:03,410 you needed a reason to buy a ticket for 451 00:22:08,050 --> 00:22:05,320 the convention there it is for sure 452 00:22:09,910 --> 00:22:08,060 worth the price of admission alone but 453 00:22:11,470 --> 00:22:09,920 for now Pamela gay all power to you 454 00:22:13,150 --> 00:22:11,480 thank you very much folks our link to 455 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:13,160 all the relevant links in this week's 456 00:22:18,370 --> 00:22:15,410 show notes and I look forward to seeing 457 00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:18,380 you a bit later on in the year I'm 458 00:22:23,020 --> 00:22:20,480 looking forward to it as well and I hope 459 00:22:24,850 --> 00:22:23,030 to see all your listeners maybe not all 460 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:24,860 at once but I hope to see all of them 461 00:22:27,330 --> 00:22:25,770 there 462 00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:27,340 [Music] 463 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:40,480 oh hi Maynard 464 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:43,330 oh hi Heidi great they're in this park 465 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:46,450 yeah if you like that sort of thing look 466 00:22:50,970 --> 00:22:47,530 over there 467 00:22:53,550 --> 00:22:50,980 oh yeah we there are no such things as 468 00:22:57,900 --> 00:22:53,560 URIs silly hmm 469 00:23:01,500 --> 00:22:57,910 might be just dog a big dog I think it's 470 00:23:05,490 --> 00:23:01,510 a King Charles Spaniel thing mm no no no 471 00:23:08,850 --> 00:23:05,500 no it's a Yowie may not if it's a choice 472 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:08,860 between it being a dog or a Yowie no no 473 00:23:13,950 --> 00:23:11,770 no see are we yeah we yeah we yeah we 474 00:23:17,970 --> 00:23:13,960 yeah we argument from Authority 475 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:17,980 it's Yahweh hey you two what are you 476 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:20,650 arguing about may not thinks that dog 477 00:23:27,540 --> 00:23:23,050 lookin thing over there is a Yowie oh 478 00:23:31,530 --> 00:23:27,550 yeah we well maybe two back of the 479 00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:31,540 walkie over her I see okay we better 480 00:23:36,990 --> 00:23:33,310 look this up in the skeptics dictionary 481 00:23:39,330 --> 00:23:37,000 online though Wow the skeptics 482 00:23:41,790 --> 00:23:39,340 dictionary online features definitions 483 00:23:44,490 --> 00:23:41,800 arguments and essays on hundreds of 484 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:44,500 strange beliefs amusing descriptions and 485 00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:48,010 dangerous delusions also features dozens 486 00:23:53,970 --> 00:23:50,260 of entries on logical fallacies 487 00:23:55,220 --> 00:23:53,980 cognitive biases perception science and 488 00:24:06,500 --> 00:23:55,230 philosophy 489 00:24:09,660 --> 00:24:06,510 it's w WS k EP di c common right ha d 490 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:09,670 prepared to be amazed 491 00:24:18,990 --> 00:24:16,450 okay ah send a Bigfoot it says most 492 00:24:21,090 --> 00:24:19,000 scientists discount the evidence of 493 00:24:24,060 --> 00:24:21,100 Bigfoot because the evidence supporting 494 00:24:26,670 --> 00:24:24,070 belief in the survival of the historic 495 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:26,680 biped ape-like creature of such 496 00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:30,250 dimensions is scant you know maybe that 497 00:24:58,170 --> 00:24:38,280 is just jebecca after all thank you 498 00:25:02,130 --> 00:24:58,180 skeptics dictionary online it's the raw 499 00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:02,140 skeptic report with Heidi Robertson 500 00:25:11,010 --> 00:25:08,640 [Music] 501 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:11,020 Robertson from the northern areas 502 00:25:17,660 --> 00:25:14,530 vaccination supporters a couple of weeks 503 00:25:20,730 --> 00:25:17,670 ago the diet skeptic Mandee Lee Noble 504 00:25:24,510 --> 00:25:20,740 emailed me with the website of American 505 00:25:27,330 --> 00:25:24,520 Don Tolman who I must confess I had not 506 00:25:29,370 --> 00:25:27,340 heard of before although I'm sure he 507 00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:29,380 would be familiar to many skeptics out 508 00:25:35,970 --> 00:25:32,260 there how I've never heard of him before 509 00:25:39,630 --> 00:25:35,980 I don't know this guy embodies the whole 510 00:25:42,810 --> 00:25:39,640 gamut the entire kit and caboodle the 511 00:25:45,780 --> 00:25:42,820 full nine yards of woo and conspiracy 512 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:45,790 theories that skeptics deal with pretty 513 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:49,690 constantly let's go to Tolman's Facebook 514 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:53,890 page for a description of him quote Don 515 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:56,290 told Minh is known as the whole food 516 00:26:00,690 --> 00:25:57,730 medicine cowboy 517 00:26:02,910 --> 00:26:00,700 because for 17 years he searched the 518 00:26:05,370 --> 00:26:02,920 world and let nothing get in his way of 519 00:26:08,460 --> 00:26:05,380 hunting down the lost wisdom of the 520 00:26:11,250 --> 00:26:08,470 Ancients the truth about the real 521 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:11,260 potential of human beings which has been 522 00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:14,410 kept hidden from the masses he read and 523 00:26:19,370 --> 00:26:17,110 interpreted the most profound ancient 524 00:26:21,690 --> 00:26:19,380 scrolls and was given special 525 00:26:24,450 --> 00:26:21,700 dispensation rights to pour through 526 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:24,460 hidden ancient libraries and searched 527 00:26:30,290 --> 00:26:26,290 through dusty old 528 00:26:32,820 --> 00:26:30,300 catacombs end quote 529 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:32,830 no wonder they call him the Indiana 530 00:26:39,630 --> 00:26:35,650 Jones of Whole Foods he looks the part 531 00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:39,640 to sort of the Indiana Jones character 532 00:26:44,790 --> 00:26:41,710 always looked a bit worse for wear with 533 00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:44,800 dirt and sweat and torn clothing the 534 00:26:50,380 --> 00:26:46,880 character was also an actual 535 00:26:53,530 --> 00:26:50,390 scientist Don Tolman has an excessively 536 00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:53,540 large black cowboy hat clean pressed 537 00:27:01,030 --> 00:26:57,200 cowboy outfits and a long merv hughes 538 00:27:04,690 --> 00:27:01,040 style mustache if you aren't Australian 539 00:27:07,780 --> 00:27:04,700 and don't know Merv Hughes I urge you to 540 00:27:11,230 --> 00:27:07,790 stop everything and bring up to Google 541 00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:11,240 Images one of Merv Hughes and the other 542 00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:14,960 of Don Tolman and tell me is that not 543 00:27:23,230 --> 00:27:20,000 Irie also Tolman is not a doctor nor a 544 00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:23,240 scientist nor does he have any medical 545 00:27:29,290 --> 00:27:26,350 or scientific qualifications whatsoever 546 00:27:31,540 --> 00:27:29,300 which has not stopped him publishing the 547 00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:31,550 pharmacist with an F Desk Reference 548 00:27:39,460 --> 00:27:35,540 volumes one two and three for three 549 00:27:42,550 --> 00:27:39,470 hundred and nineteen dollars apparently 550 00:27:45,340 --> 00:27:42,560 on his 17-year Indiana jones-style quest 551 00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:45,350 of searching catacombs and bothering 552 00:27:51,820 --> 00:27:48,320 indigenous people he discovered a recipe 553 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:51,830 on an ancient scroll the ancient scroll 554 00:27:57,460 --> 00:27:54,290 recipe is suitable for vegan and 555 00:28:00,360 --> 00:27:57,470 gluten-free diets is described as a 556 00:28:03,330 --> 00:28:00,370 sacred meal good for a detox cleanse and 557 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:03,340 you can get 28 days worth for around 558 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:08,090 $600 he isn't shy about expressing his 559 00:28:13,170 --> 00:28:11,330 total disdain for science either and the 560 00:28:16,030 --> 00:28:13,180 medical and pharmaceutical industries 561 00:28:18,220 --> 00:28:16,040 quote I believe that when things are 562 00:28:20,770 --> 00:28:18,230 complex they're usually not true and 563 00:28:23,950 --> 00:28:20,780 today's medical industry has been built 564 00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:23,960 on complex solutions I share with people 565 00:28:29,740 --> 00:28:25,760 that there's no mystery about what 566 00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:29,750 causes sickness and disease but the 567 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:31,760 problem with this perspective is that if 568 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:33,890 you solve the mystery you solve the 569 00:28:39,580 --> 00:28:36,770 money think about it if we were to lose 570 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:39,590 the confusion fear and get rid of the 571 00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:41,690 mystery of disease and go back to a 572 00:28:46,090 --> 00:28:43,910 simple understanding as to what actually 573 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:46,100 causes it in the first place then 574 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:48,770 there'd be no longer a need to create 575 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:50,930 and support billion-dollar industries 576 00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:53,090 that do research and create drugs in the 577 00:28:58,420 --> 00:28:56,510 hope that will one day find a cure the 578 00:29:00,760 --> 00:28:58,430 vast majority of doctors visits are 579 00:29:03,220 --> 00:29:00,770 unnecessary meaning that people 580 00:29:05,530 --> 00:29:03,230 even be there in the first place but the 581 00:29:07,540 --> 00:29:05,540 masses have been so indoctrinated into 582 00:29:09,220 --> 00:29:07,550 believing in this process that they 583 00:29:13,870 --> 00:29:09,230 don't give it a second thought 584 00:29:16,210 --> 00:29:13,880 end quote naturally Don has a range of 585 00:29:18,970 --> 00:29:16,220 products books seminars and health 586 00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:18,980 retreats in exotic locations that can 587 00:29:24,190 --> 00:29:21,590 help all your diseases without the 588 00:29:27,550 --> 00:29:24,200 intervention of the quote cut burn and 589 00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:27,560 poison and quite approach of your local 590 00:29:35,620 --> 00:29:31,760 family doctor depressingly Don has quite 591 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:35,630 the fan base from the full wiki org page 592 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:38,510 on him quote Tommen has spoken to more 593 00:29:45,610 --> 00:29:41,690 than 1,000 audiences in all 50 states 594 00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:45,620 and in seven foreign countries his media 595 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:48,080 credits include more than 50 radio and 596 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:51,650 TV talk show appearances per year he has 597 00:29:54,510 --> 00:29:53,810 been returned guests on Entertainment 598 00:29:58,840 --> 00:29:54,520 Tonight 599 00:30:01,870 --> 00:29:58,850 ABC talk radio the Donahue show and he's 600 00:30:04,300 --> 00:30:01,880 a regular guest on the aware show in Los 601 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:04,310 Angeles California as well as many 602 00:30:11,650 --> 00:30:08,410 newspapers and magazines end quote and 603 00:30:14,770 --> 00:30:11,660 right now right this minute he is in 604 00:30:18,190 --> 00:30:14,780 Australia at our beautiful Oh LaRue or 605 00:30:19,780 --> 00:30:18,200 Ayers Rock with a group of 25 people who 606 00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:19,790 have each paid between three and four 607 00:30:25,090 --> 00:30:21,440 thousand dollars to be in his company 608 00:30:27,940 --> 00:30:25,100 for six days this comes a couple of 609 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:27,950 months after a detox healing health 610 00:30:33,460 --> 00:30:31,850 retreat he ran in Bali he also has 611 00:30:35,730 --> 00:30:33,470 speaking appointments next month 612 00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:35,740 in Western Australia South Australia 613 00:30:43,540 --> 00:30:39,110 Victoria New South Wales and Queensland 614 00:30:45,550 --> 00:30:43,550 on that event page it says and I must 615 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:45,560 say in the opposite of a humble way 616 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:48,770 quote Dom Tolman has been referred to as 617 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:51,410 a modern-day Einstein and when you 618 00:30:57,930 --> 00:30:53,690 experience his raw genius for the first 619 00:31:01,630 --> 00:30:57,940 time you'll see exactly why end quote 620 00:31:04,050 --> 00:31:01,640 amongst other gems he will explain why 621 00:31:07,150 --> 00:31:04,060 doctors officers are called a practice 622 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:07,160 now I looked into this and found his 623 00:31:13,030 --> 00:31:10,490 explanation he legitimately thinks that 624 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:13,040 it's because doctors are just practicing 625 00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:14,490 on you 626 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:18,310 Tolman is anti-vaxxer course counts Mike 627 00:31:23,130 --> 00:31:20,890 Adams as a personal friend thinks that 628 00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:23,140 doctors who uncover the truth with a 629 00:31:29,010 --> 00:31:26,020 capital T about natural health cures are 630 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:29,020 being killed off and in general seems to 631 00:31:34,020 --> 00:31:30,850 subscribe to many of the theories that 632 00:31:36,090 --> 00:31:34,030 listeners would be familiar with he also 633 00:31:38,790 --> 00:31:36,100 subscribes to the doctrine of signatures 634 00:31:41,970 --> 00:31:38,800 or as he calls at the food signatures 635 00:31:44,580 --> 00:31:41,980 theory that is some foods that look like 636 00:31:46,620 --> 00:31:44,590 some organs of the body must be 637 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:46,630 intelligently designed that way and 638 00:31:52,740 --> 00:31:48,610 therefore must be good for that 639 00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:52,750 particular organ again from that wiki 640 00:31:57,030 --> 00:31:55,150 page quote his primary message is a 641 00:32:00,000 --> 00:31:57,040 religious one based on the food 642 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:00,010 signatures theory example claims that he 643 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:01,890 makes during his seminars include 644 00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:04,210 capsicum support health of the heart 645 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:05,980 because the vegetable looks similar to a 646 00:32:11,070 --> 00:32:08,490 heart including having four chambers 647 00:32:13,410 --> 00:32:11,080 walnuts promote brain health since 648 00:32:17,010 --> 00:32:13,420 they're corrugated shape has a brain 649 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:17,020 like appearance and that carrots can 650 00:32:24,750 --> 00:32:21,250 treat erectile dysfunction again based 651 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:24,760 on the shape of the vegetable Talman 652 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:26,770 claims that the appearance of foods is a 653 00:32:32,340 --> 00:32:30,370 coded message from God to educate humans 654 00:32:35,850 --> 00:32:32,350 about their claimed health benefits for 655 00:32:38,010 --> 00:32:35,860 specific organs and body parts he admits 656 00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:38,020 to having no basis for his claims in 657 00:32:42,270 --> 00:32:39,120 scientific research 658 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:42,280 his message rests entirely on his 659 00:32:46,890 --> 00:32:43,330 religious beliefs 660 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:46,900 end quote there is currently no 661 00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:49,570 scientific evidence that what a plant is 662 00:32:55,170 --> 00:32:51,940 shaped like has any bearing on what 663 00:32:57,510 --> 00:32:55,180 health benefits it has he sells a 664 00:33:00,120 --> 00:32:57,520 product called nature's Silver Bullet 665 00:33:03,150 --> 00:33:00,130 which he claims will boost your immune 666 00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:03,160 system for influenza and other viral and 667 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:04,300 fungal diseases 668 00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:07,690 it has colloidal silver in it and fulvic 669 00:33:13,890 --> 00:33:10,150 acid and you can buy 60 mils of it to 670 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:13,900 put in your ears eyes throat hands feet 671 00:33:21,150 --> 00:33:16,930 or genitals depending I guess on the 672 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:21,160 occasion for just $32 quote nature's 673 00:33:27,090 --> 00:33:23,530 Silver Bullet is a must for your at home 674 00:33:31,380 --> 00:33:27,100 whole food medicine cabinet yee-haa 675 00:33:34,380 --> 00:33:31,390 and quote yep he really typed in yeehaw 676 00:33:37,710 --> 00:33:34,390 under acclaimed health care product 677 00:33:40,650 --> 00:33:37,720 advertisement can you imagine the outcry 678 00:33:43,070 --> 00:33:40,660 if Big Pharma or your trusted family 679 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:43,080 doctor did the same thing 680 00:33:48,409 --> 00:33:46,090 imagine the prescription mrs. Hardy 681 00:33:53,789 --> 00:33:48,419 Robertson to take one anti hypertensive 682 00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:53,799 tablet each morning yee-ha do you suffer 683 00:33:59,100 --> 00:33:56,710 from asthma never fear even though eight 684 00:34:01,950 --> 00:33:59,110 people die each week of asthma in 685 00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:01,960 Australia don claims that he has a 686 00:34:08,849 --> 00:34:04,870 product that can assist with asthma his 687 00:34:11,330 --> 00:34:08,859 quote asthma chemical free decongestant 688 00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:11,340 spray containing distilled water 689 00:34:19,020 --> 00:34:14,649 dendritic sea salt and essential oils 690 00:34:21,869 --> 00:34:19,030 end quote also asthmatics he says should 691 00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:21,879 eat one raw a slice of a potato 692 00:34:26,220 --> 00:34:24,399 each day that is covered in freshly 693 00:34:29,430 --> 00:34:26,230 squeezed lemon juice and sprinkled with 694 00:34:32,580 --> 00:34:29,440 sea salt have you got diabetes 695 00:34:34,530 --> 00:34:32,590 Don puts diabetes in quotes and says 696 00:34:36,659 --> 00:34:34,540 that the whole thing is a complete scam 697 00:34:39,419 --> 00:34:36,669 quote especially when you consider that 698 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:39,429 the solution prescribed by doctors is a 699 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:41,530 lifetime of injecting insulin from the 700 00:34:46,830 --> 00:34:43,810 dead bodies of other beings into your 701 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:46,840 bloodstream end quote he does not 702 00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:49,210 believe that there's no cure for type 1 703 00:34:56,820 --> 00:34:52,030 or type 2 diabetes and that the solution 704 00:34:58,830 --> 00:34:56,830 of injected insulin is quite BS one of 705 00:35:00,960 --> 00:34:58,840 the points in his protocol to get people 706 00:35:03,660 --> 00:35:00,970 off their insulin is for them to fast 707 00:35:06,210 --> 00:35:03,670 which any medical professional will tell 708 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:06,220 you is extremely dangerous advice for 709 00:35:11,130 --> 00:35:09,130 diabetics he doesn't like people to use 710 00:35:14,490 --> 00:35:11,140 sunscreen as he believes that can lead 711 00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:14,500 to skin cancer he refers to depression 712 00:35:20,780 --> 00:35:17,200 as a gift and suggests that people not 713 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:20,790 turn to toxic medications to treat it 714 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:23,530 breast cancer he says can be healed and 715 00:35:28,050 --> 00:35:25,930 prevented naturally quote do not be 716 00:35:30,660 --> 00:35:28,060 bullied into biopsies treatments and 717 00:35:32,340 --> 00:35:30,670 surgeries without first questioning that 718 00:35:35,220 --> 00:35:32,350 path and where it leads 719 00:35:37,620 --> 00:35:35,230 end quote well of course one should 720 00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:37,630 always question once treatment options 721 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:39,520 to ensure that you are fully informed 722 00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:40,450 before you 723 00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:43,420 proceed but I suspect this is not what 724 00:35:48,089 --> 00:35:45,359 he is getting at 725 00:35:51,180 --> 00:35:48,099 got a severe life-threatening allergy to 726 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:51,190 a food before you've blamed the food Don 727 00:35:55,890 --> 00:35:52,810 says you should look at how good the 728 00:35:58,430 --> 00:35:55,900 quality of the food was thankfully he 729 00:36:02,069 --> 00:35:58,440 says if you are definitely allergic 730 00:36:05,010 --> 00:36:02,079 eliminate the food for good but hang on 731 00:36:07,589 --> 00:36:05,020 he then goes on to say that you should 732 00:36:10,140 --> 00:36:07,599 then have repeated exposure to the food 733 00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:10,150 quote start by holding it and smelling 734 00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:12,310 it then in time licking it tasting it 735 00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:15,270 and eventually swallowing some and quite 736 00:36:21,630 --> 00:36:18,880 please don't ever do this unless you are 737 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:21,640 in the care and presence of a specialist 738 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:26,290 in immunology analogy remember polio I 739 00:36:31,770 --> 00:36:29,530 don't I've been fortunate enough like 740 00:36:34,980 --> 00:36:31,780 most of us to have never seen polio 741 00:36:36,930 --> 00:36:34,990 because of the polio vaccine Don says 742 00:36:39,890 --> 00:36:36,940 that polio was actually caused by the 743 00:36:43,020 --> 00:36:39,900 smallpox vaccine but hang on because 744 00:36:45,170 --> 00:36:43,030 then you go to another of his sites and 745 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:45,180 he says that polio was caused by people 746 00:36:51,059 --> 00:36:48,250 eating too much processed sugar and 747 00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,069 white flour and anyway they haven't 748 00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:53,440 actually eradicated polio from nearly 749 00:36:58,559 --> 00:36:54,880 every country on the planet 750 00:37:01,710 --> 00:36:58,569 they've just renamed polio as Ms Lou 751 00:37:04,319 --> 00:37:01,720 Gehrig's disease and others there's his 752 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:04,329 jewel of Thor Ramadi a mixture of aloe 753 00:37:10,349 --> 00:37:07,810 vera and organic cinnamon leaf oil which 754 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:10,359 is described as a daily shot of the 755 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:14,770 elixir of life for just $65 there's a 756 00:37:19,470 --> 00:37:16,690 14-day cleanse for two hundred and 757 00:37:22,730 --> 00:37:19,480 ninety five dollars ear candles home 758 00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:22,740 enema kits he does like a home enema kit 759 00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:27,910 juices anti-vaxxer also you dear 760 00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:30,400 listener can become a reseller for Don 761 00:37:37,140 --> 00:37:33,760 Tolman he doesn't like fluoridated water 762 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:37,150 or genetically modified foods either so 763 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:39,250 if you have been exposed to those you 764 00:37:45,059 --> 00:37:41,170 can find the remedy in the shop now 765 00:37:48,359 --> 00:37:45,069 section of his website he promotes 766 00:37:50,970 --> 00:37:48,369 medical medium Anthony Williams book who 767 00:37:52,859 --> 00:37:50,980 is qualified apparently to tell you 768 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:52,869 about your health because he was quite 769 00:37:55,530 --> 00:37:53,890 born with the 770 00:37:57,330 --> 00:37:55,540 ability to converse with a high-level 771 00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:57,340 spirit end quote 772 00:38:03,660 --> 00:38:00,400 I guess that's better than a low or 773 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:03,670 medium level spirit he also doesn't mind 774 00:38:07,860 --> 00:38:06,490 a bit of victim blaming let me finish 775 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:07,870 with a Donne Talmud quote that 776 00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:10,690 illustrates this please keep this in 777 00:38:15,870 --> 00:38:12,910 mind if you or a loved one is ever in a 778 00:38:17,850 --> 00:38:15,880 car crash or diagnosed with cancer or 779 00:38:21,410 --> 00:38:17,860 you have some other equally horrific 780 00:38:24,510 --> 00:38:21,420 thing happen in your life actually 781 00:38:26,220 --> 00:38:24,520 please don't keep it in mind as soon as 782 00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:26,230 you hear it immediately wipe it from 783 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:28,320 your mind and never think of it again 784 00:38:35,820 --> 00:38:32,410 Don says quote no one ever dies unless 785 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:35,830 they choose to die even if you're 786 00:38:39,090 --> 00:38:37,810 smashed in an automobile accident and 787 00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:39,100 crushed to the point of not being 788 00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:41,680 functional within your body you will not 789 00:38:48,330 --> 00:38:45,430 die unless you choose to you can stay 790 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:48,340 there in a crushed mess and still have 791 00:38:53,130 --> 00:38:50,650 life literally being able to be recorded 792 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:53,140 within the brain waves but the second 793 00:38:59,820 --> 00:38:57,210 you choose to die you do end quote 794 00:39:03,570 --> 00:38:59,830 don appears to be suggesting that it's 795 00:39:04,980 --> 00:39:03,580 your fault if you die does the 796 00:39:07,980 --> 00:39:04,990 five-year-old suffering from leukemia 797 00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:07,990 choose to die from it too I wonder what 798 00:39:14,430 --> 00:39:11,710 he'd say to that so is Don Tolman 799 00:39:18,150 --> 00:39:14,440 knowingly spreading falsehoods to make a 800 00:39:20,070 --> 00:39:18,160 buck or is he a true believer I don't 801 00:39:22,410 --> 00:39:20,080 know and I'm not sure it even matters 802 00:39:24,030 --> 00:39:22,420 the end result is that he has a 803 00:39:27,450 --> 00:39:24,040 following of people that are listening 804 00:39:29,370 --> 00:39:27,460 to potentially dangerous advice I've 805 00:39:32,610 --> 00:39:29,380 only given a few examples of it in this 806 00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:32,620 report there are pages and pages more on 807 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:36,160 his website if you hear the name Don 808 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:38,290 Tolman come up in conversation and you 809 00:39:42,270 --> 00:39:40,330 have a family member or a friend that 810 00:39:45,060 --> 00:39:42,280 may be looking at going to one of his 811 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:45,070 talks or buying his products let them 812 00:39:50,070 --> 00:39:47,170 know that much of his advice is neither 813 00:39:52,890 --> 00:39:50,080 scientifically backed nor even has any 814 00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:52,900 basis in reality his advice about 815 00:39:59,010 --> 00:39:55,510 healthy eating and exercise is not new 816 00:40:01,290 --> 00:39:59,020 everyone knows about that but that bit 817 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:01,300 of science-based advice may lead for 818 00:40:06,450 --> 00:40:03,610 some vulnerable people to start looking 819 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:06,460 at his other advice and before they know 820 00:40:09,390 --> 00:40:07,330 it 821 00:40:12,180 --> 00:40:09,400 they maybe juice cleansing for cancer 822 00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:12,190 and pouring colloidal silver on their 823 00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:16,240 genitals and with that happy image in 824 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:18,640 mind thanks for listening this has been 825 00:40:23,790 --> 00:40:20,530 hiding robertson from the northern 826 00:40:41,580 --> 00:40:23,800 reverse vaccination supporters jail for 827 00:40:43,140 --> 00:40:41,590 now now listeners may recall that i 828 00:40:46,110 --> 00:40:43,150 issued a call for help 829 00:40:48,780 --> 00:40:46,120 two weeks ago show number four nine to 830 00:40:51,090 --> 00:40:48,790 seven i have an email from dr. ken 831 00:40:53,250 --> 00:40:51,100 harvey and one from mel vickers mal is 832 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:53,260 one of ken harvey students at Monash 833 00:40:58,410 --> 00:40:55,930 University they would like to pass on 834 00:41:00,990 --> 00:40:58,420 this sincere thanks via the show and 835 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:01,000 I'll read out a list of names shortly 836 00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:03,490 now the call for help was in relation to 837 00:41:08,610 --> 00:41:06,250 a website that has very useful 838 00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:08,620 information for skeptics and Friends of 839 00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:10,990 science and medicine members the 840 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:13,260 particular site in question has 841 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:17,530 technical legal decisions known as C R P 842 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:20,410 determinations these determinations are 843 00:41:26,070 --> 00:41:23,410 in relation to some particularly shonky 844 00:41:29,460 --> 00:41:26,080 advertising the determinations date back 845 00:41:31,710 --> 00:41:29,470 to nineteen ninety nine and there are 846 00:41:33,630 --> 00:41:31,720 about two thousand two hundred of them 847 00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:33,640 the types of products featured in these 848 00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:36,100 determinations are things like raspberry 849 00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:40,240 leaf extract tumeric pills ear candles 850 00:41:46,140 --> 00:41:42,820 homeopathy and vitac gummies 851 00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:46,150 those are lollies candy claimed to 852 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:48,880 provide vitamins to your children and 853 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:51,370 instead they deliver high sugar and high 854 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:53,610 food acids to young developing teeth 855 00:42:00,270 --> 00:41:56,410 these are the kinds of marketing claims 856 00:42:02,010 --> 00:42:00,280 that really get skeptics annoyed a quick 857 00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:02,020 glance along the shelves of your local 858 00:42:06,510 --> 00:42:04,000 pharmacy should indicate that there is 859 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:06,520 still a lot of work to do although it 860 00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:08,650 was only two weeks ago ayissha a call 861 00:42:12,570 --> 00:42:10,480 for help I'm told the website in 862 00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:12,580 question has been independently copied 863 00:42:17,730 --> 00:42:15,280 to four times I've had a look at one of 864 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:17,740 the websites copied of the CRP 865 00:42:20,990 --> 00:42:20,170 determinations created by listener Dane 866 00:42:23,060 --> 00:42:21,000 Lewis 867 00:42:25,610 --> 00:42:23,070 it's excellent it looks better and works 868 00:42:27,950 --> 00:42:25,620 better than the original work now 869 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:27,960 continues to analyze the determinations 870 00:42:33,410 --> 00:42:30,090 with the aim of using it to improve 871 00:42:35,810 --> 00:42:33,420 regulations and as such improved public 872 00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:35,820 protection this is all thanks to the 873 00:42:40,850 --> 00:42:37,920 small group of interested listeners who 874 00:42:42,620 --> 00:42:40,860 stepped forward and offered to help dr. 875 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:42,630 ken Harvey and mal Vickers would like to 876 00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:44,130 offer their sincere thanks to the 877 00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:46,550 following people 878 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:51,110 Stephen Edmonds mark Dawson Dane Lewis 879 00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:56,010 Steven Gunn and Matthew Bishop it would 880 00:42:58,730 --> 00:42:57,210 like some more information on this 881 00:43:03,190 --> 00:42:58,740 project there you can always drop 882 00:43:08,540 --> 00:43:03,200 Malvika a note and the email is f sm 883 00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:08,550 complaints at gmail.com and a thank you 884 00:43:12,650 --> 00:43:10,310 for me to the skeptic zone listeners 885 00:43:15,540 --> 00:43:12,660 it's wonderful to know that there's a 886 00:43:33,210 --> 00:43:15,550 worldwide resource for us to use 887 00:43:40,700 --> 00:43:35,050 [Laughter] 888 00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:43,140 from the skeptic the Journal of 889 00:43:52,579 --> 00:43:46,480 Australian skeptics vol 38 number one 890 00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:52,589 March 2018 the blind seer 891 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:55,510 richardsaunders looks into a famous case 892 00:44:00,059 --> 00:43:56,890 of the disappearance of young children 893 00:44:04,730 --> 00:44:00,069 and Australia's baptism into the world 894 00:44:11,060 --> 00:44:07,820 [Music] 895 00:44:13,130 --> 00:44:11,070 in 2017 Detective Chief Inspector Gary 896 00:44:15,710 --> 00:44:13,140 deublin of the New South Wales Police 897 00:44:17,210 --> 00:44:15,720 Force made the point that quote we're 898 00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,220 not interested in information from 899 00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:19,680 clairvoyance or people that have had 900 00:44:24,770 --> 00:44:22,200 dreams what we're interested in is 901 00:44:29,870 --> 00:44:24,780 people that have genuine information in 902 00:44:31,580 --> 00:44:29,880 quote he was speaking in reference to 903 00:44:35,420 --> 00:44:31,590 the case of the disappearance of three 904 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:35,430 year old William Tyrell in 2014 but his 905 00:44:40,910 --> 00:44:38,130 views no doubt born of long and 906 00:44:43,700 --> 00:44:40,920 frustrating experience reflect on a much 907 00:44:45,740 --> 00:44:43,710 earlier case the tragedy of the missing 908 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:45,750 Beaumont children was recently revisited 909 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:48,450 with another fruitless search for their 910 00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:51,450 remains more than 50 years after their 911 00:44:56,570 --> 00:44:54,960 disappearance from an Adelaide Beach but 912 00:44:59,360 --> 00:44:56,580 this case is a lesson in how 913 00:45:01,610 --> 00:44:59,370 practitioners of the paranormal and in 914 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:01,620 particular psychics latch on to any 915 00:45:10,859 --> 00:45:04,410 potentially and vintagy situation the 916 00:45:17,559 --> 00:45:15,099 on the 26th of January 1966 and blazing 917 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:17,569 hot day in Adelaide three children went 918 00:45:23,290 --> 00:45:20,210 for a day at Glenelg Beach and never 919 00:45:25,089 --> 00:45:23,300 came home over half a century later the 920 00:45:27,450 --> 00:45:25,099 case of the Beaumont children remains 921 00:45:30,010 --> 00:45:27,460 one of Australia's greatest mysteries 922 00:45:33,370 --> 00:45:30,020 although several people suspected of 923 00:45:36,579 --> 00:45:33,380 abducting Jane Anna and grant have been 924 00:45:38,559 --> 00:45:36,589 flagged over the years the police as far 925 00:45:41,559 --> 00:45:38,569 as we know are still no closer to 926 00:45:44,319 --> 00:45:41,569 solving the disappearance this case is 927 00:45:47,410 --> 00:45:44,329 also infamous in the paranormal sphere 928 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:47,420 as Australia's most publicized use of a 929 00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:50,690 so-called psychic and detective in the 930 00:45:54,370 --> 00:45:52,250 months following the disappearance of 931 00:45:56,740 --> 00:45:54,380 the children and with no progress being 932 00:46:00,130 --> 00:45:56,750 made in the case a local Adelaide 933 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:00,140 citizen Yann Vinci wrote to fellow 934 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:03,410 Dutchman Gerard Chrisette who by the 935 00:46:08,460 --> 00:46:06,410 early 1960s was claiming a reputation of 936 00:46:11,290 --> 00:46:08,470 being able to help police in solving 937 00:46:14,250 --> 00:46:11,300 missing-persons cases using his quote 938 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:14,260 psychic visions end quote corset replied 939 00:46:19,539 --> 00:46:16,970 stating he thought the children were 940 00:46:22,059 --> 00:46:19,549 dead and buried about 800 meters from 941 00:46:23,380 --> 00:46:22,069 the beach however his visions did not 942 00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:23,390 imply a foul play 943 00:46:28,450 --> 00:46:25,520 he said the children had died from an 944 00:46:31,329 --> 00:46:28,460 accidental cave-in after exploring some 945 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:31,339 sort of tunnel the media picked up on 946 00:46:35,770 --> 00:46:33,410 the story as the case was still fresh in 947 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:35,780 the public's imagination and soon more 948 00:46:41,020 --> 00:46:37,130 and more people were reading about 949 00:46:44,770 --> 00:46:41,030 Cosette and his visions the newspapers 950 00:46:47,410 --> 00:46:44,780 labelled him as a quote seer 951 00:46:50,140 --> 00:46:47,420 and quote in the headlines that were to 952 00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:50,150 come the media were beside themselves as 953 00:46:54,700 --> 00:46:52,730 reports of new visions from Cosette 954 00:46:57,089 --> 00:46:54,710 appeared in newspapers and magazines 955 00:46:59,920 --> 00:46:57,099 such as the Australian Women's Weekly 956 00:47:02,530 --> 00:46:59,930 such was the fascination and hope in 957 00:47:05,140 --> 00:47:02,540 what this SIA had to offer that it was 958 00:47:08,289 --> 00:47:05,150 soon organized via the sponsorship of 959 00:47:10,990 --> 00:47:08,299 property businessman Cohn Pilates for a 960 00:47:12,579 --> 00:47:11,000 cassette to fly to Australia to search 961 00:47:15,849 --> 00:47:12,589 for the children in person 962 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:15,859 psychic searches Chris ed arrived in 963 00:47:21,609 --> 00:47:18,650 Adelaide on the night of November 8 1966 964 00:47:22,089 --> 00:47:21,619 and was greeted by hundreds of people in 965 00:47:24,759 --> 00:47:22,099 media 966 00:47:26,529 --> 00:47:24,769 crews from TV radio and newspapers it 967 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:26,539 was front page news in the advertiser 968 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:28,729 the local adelaide paper the next 969 00:47:33,940 --> 00:47:30,890 morning which reported the event as 970 00:47:36,279 --> 00:47:33,950 being frantic it is largely through the 971 00:47:38,769 --> 00:47:36,289 reports in that newspaper that we can 972 00:47:41,259 --> 00:47:38,779 piece together cassettes activities over 973 00:47:44,140 --> 00:47:41,269 the next couple of days from the 974 00:47:47,499 --> 00:47:44,150 advertiser of November the 10th quote 975 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:47,509 tension yesterday was a day of tension 976 00:47:52,210 --> 00:47:49,729 as he walked several miles and drove 977 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:52,220 many more through the streets and along 978 00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:54,650 the four Shores spurred onwards by his 979 00:48:00,269 --> 00:47:57,890 visions men quote the report included a 980 00:48:03,969 --> 00:48:00,279 map of the places visited by cassette a 981 00:48:06,039 --> 00:48:03,979 detailed rundown of things like houses 982 00:48:08,499 --> 00:48:06,049 and other landmarks he had seen in his 983 00:48:11,289 --> 00:48:08,509 visions and quoting him saying he had a 984 00:48:13,529 --> 00:48:11,299 quote a very strong feeling in quote 985 00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:13,539 about the location of the children 986 00:48:18,579 --> 00:48:16,160 however in reading these reports one 987 00:48:21,039 --> 00:48:18,589 cannot escape the impression of someone 988 00:48:24,460 --> 00:48:21,049 just looking around streets at random 989 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:24,470 making notes and moving on followed by 990 00:48:28,989 --> 00:48:26,930 20 members of the press the next day 991 00:48:32,140 --> 00:48:28,999 brought a startling twist to the story 992 00:48:34,359 --> 00:48:32,150 Croisette spent an hour interviewing a 993 00:48:36,579 --> 00:48:34,369 woman who claimed she heard the Beaumont 994 00:48:40,059 --> 00:48:36,589 children playing outside her house the 995 00:48:42,190 --> 00:48:40,069 day after they disappeared she too had a 996 00:48:45,759 --> 00:48:42,200 vision and was convinced they were 997 00:48:48,339 --> 00:48:45,769 buried in a lot she once owned all this 998 00:48:50,799 --> 00:48:48,349 was gold for newspaper copy eventually 999 00:48:53,709 --> 00:48:50,809 however was that rejected this woman's 1000 00:48:56,349 --> 00:48:53,719 visions on the 12th the front page of 1001 00:48:59,680 --> 00:48:56,359 the advertiser read quote Croisette 1002 00:49:02,680 --> 00:48:59,690 picks spot decision awaited dutch 1003 00:49:05,140 --> 00:49:02,690 clairvoyant Gerard Cosette climaxes two 1004 00:49:06,910 --> 00:49:05,150 and a half day search when he said 1005 00:49:08,799 --> 00:49:06,920 yesterday the Beaumont children were 1006 00:49:11,319 --> 00:49:08,809 buried between eight and ten feet 1007 00:49:14,170 --> 00:49:11,329 beneath the concrete floor of a newly 1008 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:14,180 built warehouse in Wilton Avenue / Inga 1009 00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:17,210 Park in quote crowds of people flocked 1010 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:19,359 to the site out of curiosity or 1011 00:49:23,739 --> 00:49:21,170 anticipation of something being 1012 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:23,749 discovered 4-core said however it was 1013 00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:26,210 time to leave Adelaide to continue his 1014 00:49:31,539 --> 00:49:29,450 trip to New York to give lectures before 1015 00:49:34,749 --> 00:49:31,549 he left he paid a visit to the Beaumont 1016 00:49:35,900 --> 00:49:34,759 parents mrs. Beaumont at least refused 1017 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:35,910 to believe her children 1018 00:49:43,339 --> 00:49:39,450 dead despite corsets visions the quote 1019 00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:43,349 decision awaited unquote refers to talks 1020 00:49:47,329 --> 00:49:45,359 held by the South Australian premier 1021 00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:47,339 Frank Walsh and the Deputy Commissioner 1022 00:49:51,410 --> 00:49:48,510 of Police 1023 00:49:53,809 --> 00:49:51,420 Geoffrey leaned to consider what should 1024 00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:53,819 be done in the view of the police there 1025 00:49:58,490 --> 00:49:56,400 was no reason and no real possibility 1026 00:50:01,339 --> 00:49:58,500 the children could be buried under the 1027 00:50:04,250 --> 00:50:01,349 warehouse on the 15th state cabinet 1028 00:50:07,339 --> 00:50:04,260 decided not to authorize excavations 1029 00:50:09,559 --> 00:50:07,349 with Walsh saying quote excavations of 1030 00:50:12,559 --> 00:50:09,569 this area would be a waste of time money 1031 00:50:14,799 --> 00:50:12,569 and effort in quote this news came as a 1032 00:50:17,150 --> 00:50:14,809 great disappointment to Pilates and 1033 00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:17,160 thousands who had followed the exploits 1034 00:50:24,410 --> 00:50:20,400 of Cosette but the story was far from 1035 00:50:27,859 --> 00:50:24,420 over by early May 1967 a group calling 1036 00:50:30,589 --> 00:50:27,869 itself the citizens action committee had 1037 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:30,599 raised around forty thousand dollars to 1038 00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:32,490 fund a private excavation of the 1039 00:50:38,029 --> 00:50:35,520 warehouse days of digging to a depth of 1040 00:50:41,870 --> 00:50:38,039 up to fifteen feet at the spot chosen by 1041 00:50:46,220 --> 00:50:41,880 Cosette followed but with no results the 1042 00:50:48,380 --> 00:50:46,230 continuing story we now travel to 1996 1043 00:50:50,539 --> 00:50:48,390 the 30th anniversary of the 1044 00:50:52,029 --> 00:50:50,549 disappearance and once again the 1045 00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:52,039 warehouse was subject to another 1046 00:50:58,670 --> 00:50:55,200 excavation this time funded by Pilates 1047 00:51:00,799 --> 00:50:58,680 who after so long was still clinging on 1048 00:51:05,269 --> 00:51:00,809 to the belief that Cosette was the real 1049 00:51:08,329 --> 00:51:05,279 deal once again nothing was found in 1050 00:51:11,210 --> 00:51:08,339 January 2018 over 50 years had passed 1051 00:51:13,940 --> 00:51:11,220 but still there was a need for many to 1052 00:51:15,470 --> 00:51:13,950 somehow prove the psychic right police 1053 00:51:18,109 --> 00:51:15,480 received information on a possible 1054 00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:18,119 burial site in another warehouse some 1055 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:20,250 five kilometers away from the one in 1056 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:23,010 Wilton Avenue in the days leading up to 1057 00:51:29,059 --> 00:51:25,410 the new dig this time conducted by 1058 00:51:30,859 --> 00:51:29,069 police the new daily online ran the 1059 00:51:33,470 --> 00:51:30,869 story with the angle that if the 1060 00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:33,480 children were to be found in this new 1061 00:51:38,779 --> 00:51:36,480 location quote Cosette dismissed by 1062 00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:38,789 skeptics as a fraud at the time might at 1063 00:51:44,329 --> 00:51:41,510 least be partially vindicated in quote 1064 00:51:46,700 --> 00:51:44,339 sadly no trace of the children was found 1065 00:51:49,140 --> 00:51:46,710 we can suspect that Gerard quest that 1066 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:49,150 who died in 1918 like 1067 00:51:54,450 --> 00:51:51,490 so many others over the years truly 1068 00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:54,460 believed he had psychic insights and was 1069 00:51:58,890 --> 00:51:57,130 an aid to investigations even today in 1070 00:52:01,140 --> 00:51:58,900 Australia and throughout the world we 1071 00:52:04,140 --> 00:52:01,150 can find people claiming they quote help 1072 00:52:06,809 --> 00:52:04,150 police and quote via their mystical 1073 00:52:09,059 --> 00:52:06,819 powers some are even consulted by police 1074 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:09,069 who really should know better and this 1075 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:11,650 interaction only goes to reinforce the 1076 00:52:17,730 --> 00:52:14,770 delusion held by the psychic who then 1077 00:52:20,789 --> 00:52:17,740 goes on to state quote I help the police 1078 00:52:24,059 --> 00:52:20,799 in quote or quote I have worked on 1079 00:52:26,039 --> 00:52:24,069 so-and-so case men quote but even if 1080 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:26,049 they are never consulted by the police 1081 00:52:32,010 --> 00:52:29,170 or consulted on another matter they can 1082 00:52:35,190 --> 00:52:32,020 still make the same claims a case in 1083 00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:35,200 point is an an and a favorite of Woman's 1084 00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:38,770 Day magazine in 2004 she was interviewed 1085 00:52:46,190 --> 00:52:42,010 on TV by Carrie and keneley who asked 1086 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:46,200 her what cases she had worked on and and 1087 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:50,410 granny killers and backpacker Carrie Ann 1088 00:52:56,700 --> 00:52:53,010 Kenley and how helpful was that 1089 00:52:58,319 --> 00:52:56,710 information to the police and and with 1090 00:53:00,599 --> 00:52:58,329 the granny killers I told them four 1091 00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:00,609 months before the mistake I made his 1092 00:53:06,839 --> 00:53:04,210 house was number 18 not 81 so I had the 1093 00:53:07,940 --> 00:53:06,849 address the number of the house back to 1094 00:53:11,460 --> 00:53:07,950 front 1095 00:53:15,870 --> 00:53:11,470 Carrie and Kenley say you actually gave 1096 00:53:18,299 --> 00:53:15,880 them the address and and yes Carrie Anne 1097 00:53:22,769 --> 00:53:18,309 Kenley Wow how did the police take that 1098 00:53:24,510 --> 00:53:22,779 information and and I don't know when 1099 00:53:26,940 --> 00:53:24,520 I'm getting something I just put it down 1100 00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:26,950 and I send it off it's for them what 1101 00:53:31,410 --> 00:53:29,049 they do with it and of course we only 1102 00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:31,420 have her word for it that she actually 1103 00:53:36,059 --> 00:53:33,910 sent anything to the police at all she 1104 00:53:38,519 --> 00:53:36,069 has no idea if they even received it or 1105 00:53:40,799 --> 00:53:38,529 read it or acted upon it in any way in 1106 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:40,809 any case she sent them a wrong number 1107 00:53:47,010 --> 00:53:43,450 and we have no reason to suspect she 1108 00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:47,020 gave them the right street name yet she 1109 00:53:51,809 --> 00:53:49,690 has visions and goes around boasting she 1110 00:53:53,700 --> 00:53:51,819 helps the police aided in this delusion 1111 00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:53,710 by the media who know this sort of thing 1112 00:53:59,819 --> 00:53:57,130 sells stories I'm sure in her own mind 1113 00:54:02,190 --> 00:53:59,829 she really thinks Mike Recep did all 1114 00:54:02,750 --> 00:54:02,200 those years ago she does help the police 1115 00:54:05,810 --> 00:54:02,760 who 1116 00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:05,820 hope would file her letters in the round 1117 00:54:10,610 --> 00:54:08,640 filing cabinet it is worth mentioning 1118 00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:10,620 that at the time of writing February 1119 00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:14,130 2018 both the Beaumont parents are still 1120 00:54:19,100 --> 00:54:16,770 alive losing their children turned out 1121 00:54:24,570 --> 00:54:19,110 to be a life sentence for them with no 1122 00:54:31,690 --> 00:54:29,050 and that story was the blind seer by 1123 00:54:33,700 --> 00:54:31,700 Richard Saunders from the skeptic the 1124 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:33,710 Journal of Australian skeptics vol 38 1125 00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:49,490 number one March 2018 hi this is Ben 1126 00:54:53,260 --> 00:54:51,410 Radford and this is Pascual romero from 1127 00:54:55,450 --> 00:54:53,270 the squaring the strange podcast every 1128 00:54:58,030 --> 00:54:55,460 week my co-host and I cast a skeptical 1129 00:55:00,220 --> 00:54:58,040 eye at a different topic monsters ghosts 1130 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:00,230 demons mysteries and even current events 1131 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:02,450 are dissected and discussed with a fun 1132 00:55:06,340 --> 00:55:04,490 unscripted and skeptical take that 1133 00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:06,350 you're sure to enjoy find us as squaring 1134 00:55:21,609 --> 00:55:08,720 strange comm iTunes or on your favorite 1135 00:55:26,900 --> 00:55:24,020 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1136 00:55:30,190 --> 00:55:26,910 zone and that was the last of the 400 1137 00:55:33,890 --> 00:55:30,200 series next week is show number 500 and 1138 00:55:38,900 --> 00:55:33,900 if you had told me almost 10 years ago 1139 00:55:40,580 --> 00:55:38,910 that that there would be a show 500 well 1140 00:55:43,460 --> 00:55:40,590 you know how it is you can never predict 1141 00:55:45,470 --> 00:55:43,470 the future actually that reminds me of 1142 00:55:49,130 --> 00:55:45,480 an interesting thing I put out recently 1143 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:49,140 a question which was inspired by my 1144 00:55:55,070 --> 00:55:51,290 working on this great prediction project 1145 00:55:58,730 --> 00:55:55,080 if people can predict the future or can 1146 00:56:00,530 --> 00:55:58,740 they but all my thinking was I don't 1147 00:56:03,980 --> 00:56:00,540 think it's possible as far as I know in 1148 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:03,990 physics through to send information into 1149 00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:07,650 the past ah from the future or from the 1150 00:56:13,220 --> 00:56:10,170 present to send that back in time so to 1151 00:56:16,310 --> 00:56:13,230 speak so if people claim they can look 1152 00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:16,320 into the future psychics and so on then 1153 00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:18,810 they must be getting information from 1154 00:56:23,330 --> 00:56:21,510 the future and from the futures point of 1155 00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:23,340 view that information is being sent into 1156 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:27,450 the past this has stirred a lot of 1157 00:56:33,020 --> 00:56:31,290 comment and interesting thinking on on 1158 00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:33,030 the internet lately you might want to 1159 00:56:38,420 --> 00:56:36,240 have a think about that yourself anyway 1160 00:56:40,460 --> 00:56:38,430 so um 10 years ago 1161 00:56:42,349 --> 00:56:40,470 I certainly didn't receive any 1162 00:56:45,740 --> 00:56:42,359 information from myself now saying that 1163 00:56:48,830 --> 00:56:45,750 there would be a show 500 so I hope to 1164 00:56:51,020 --> 00:56:48,840 bring you on show 500 a think tank this 1165 00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:51,030 is the meeting we used to do regularly 1166 00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:52,530 in the early days of the skeptic zone 1167 00:56:58,370 --> 00:56:54,690 and we'll have a few old favorites come 1168 00:57:00,830 --> 00:56:58,380 along to join me in the think tank also 1169 00:57:03,380 --> 00:57:00,840 dr. Cassandra Perryman has sent me 1170 00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:03,390 report for the case files the welcome 1171 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:06,180 return of dr. Cassandra looking into why 1172 00:57:11,750 --> 00:57:08,850 people keep believing frankly the 1173 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:11,760 unbelievable also I think we'll be 1174 00:57:18,530 --> 00:57:16,410 playing some messages of birth of our of 1175 00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:18,540 our congratulations from around the 1176 00:57:22,580 --> 00:57:20,730 world which is very nice and I think 1177 00:57:24,830 --> 00:57:22,590 we'll have a report for you from the 1178 00:57:27,410 --> 00:57:24,840 vaccination clinic that we mentioned 1179 00:57:29,150 --> 00:57:27,420 just before at the top of the show lots 1180 00:57:32,180 --> 00:57:29,160 of things to look forward to next week 1181 00:57:34,460 --> 00:57:32,190 but from show number four nine nine 1182 00:57:35,089 --> 00:57:34,470 this is Richard Saunders signing off 1183 00:57:41,269 --> 00:57:35,099 from 1184 00:57:44,059 --> 00:57:41,279 in Australia you've been listening to 1185 00:57:50,719 --> 00:57:44,069 the skeptic zone podcast please visit 1186 00:57:53,539 --> 00:57:50,729 our website at wwlp.com tax and to 1187 00:57:57,170 --> 00:57:53,549 access the bat catalog of episodes going 1188 00:57:59,979 --> 00:57:57,180 back to 2008 you can follow the skeptic 1189 00:58:02,719 --> 00:57:59,989 zone podcast on twitter at skeptic zone 1190 00:58:04,269 --> 00:58:02,729 visit our facebook page or leave a 1191 00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:04,279 review on itunes 1192 00:58:10,339 --> 00:58:06,960 you can also support the skeptic zone 1193 00:58:13,059 --> 00:58:10,349 via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone 1194 00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:13,069 podcast is an independent production 1195 00:58:17,569 --> 00:58:15,450 reviews and opinions expressed on the 1196 00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:17,579 skeptic zone are not necessarily those 1197 00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:19,920 of Australian skeptics for any other 1198 00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:21,760 skeptical organization 1199 00:58:36,580 --> 00:58:34,030 happy birthday to the raw sceptic Heidi 1200 00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:36,590 Robinson who does a wonderful job for 1201 00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:38,000 the Northern Rivers vaccination 1202 00:58:41,830 --> 00:58:39,440 supporters 1203 00:58:44,530 --> 00:58:41,840 I really admire the work you do Heidi 1204 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:44,540 sincerely and here's a funny clip for 1205 00:58:49,210 --> 00:58:46,850 your birthday any medical professional 1206 00:58:54,430 --> 00:58:49,220 will tell you is extremely dangerous 1207 00:58:58,660 --> 00:58:54,440 advice for diabetics that's my dog 1208 00:59:02,860 --> 00:58:58,670 eating a bone on the floor okay I think 1209 00:59:11,020 --> 00:59:02,870 you stopped now your candle my dog can 1210 00:59:14,410 --> 00:59:11,030 you stop stop with the pine no no all 1211 00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:14,420 right I'll check the bone out here go